In an exclusive interview with BetIdeas, ex-world champion Tony Bellew looks ahead to Daniel Dubois’ rematch with Oleksandr Usyk in July. He also spoke about what could be next for Johnny Fisher after his damaging defeat to Dave Allen.
Question: Darren Till and Carl Froch have had a little back and forth in recent weeks, and Till said if he sees him, he won’t be held responsible for his actions…What do you think of his comments?
Tony Bellew: Darren’s one to not play around with to be fair. He’s the one with the extreme skillset. And Carl has dangerous hands, that goes without saying. But Darren’s skillset is a little bit more well-rounded to say the least. You don’t want a problem with someone like Darren. He can roll around with you on the floor. He can pick you up, he can slam you, he can choke you and he can throw a punch as well. So that’s not nice….
Q: If they were to get it on in the ring though, in the boxing ring, this is not the UFC ring, who would you see coming out on top?
A: I don’t think it’s a fair playing field in a boxing ring. Carl is a former World champion. A unified champion at that. Frochy was a force to be reckoned with. So if it’s in a boxing ring, I don’t think that’s very fair on Darren. But if they were to meet in a dark alley, I don’t think Carl would come out as the same guy.
Q: Josh Taylor lost to Ekou Essouman. Credit to Ekou for another underdog win but that is Taylor’s 3rd consecutive defeat. Is this the end for Taylor after an incredible career?
A: It could be. I watched the fight to be fair, and I feel for Josh Taylor, because he started to fight so well. And I don’t know whether the weight or the strength gets a hold him in the second half of the fight. For me, someone like Josh Taylor, his greatest asset was his activity. How busy he was when he fights, how repetitive he is, how strong he is, and especially down the stretch. And I just think the case of inactivity, the biggest killer of all fighters is that word – inactivity, and I think it’s seen Josh Taylor off to be honest. If he’s gonna stay in the game, he needs to get back out as soon as possible.
Q: Do you think COVID affected fighters like Josh? One of his fights during that time was in front of 60-odd people, which is such a shame..
A: He’s been overlooked massively. He’s a World Class fighter. One of Scotland’s finest, one of Great Britain’s finest. But it’s come for him in a time of difficulty. When it comes to promoters, when it comes to broadcasters and when it comes to title defenses and how the belts fragment and stuff, it hasn’t worked out well for him. But I’ll say if Josh is gonna carry on, which I think he will, he’s gonna need to go out straight away because he can’t have the curse of inactivity again.
As for Essouman, I’m not sure where he goes next because. I don’t think he beats the world champions, but I do think he’s a really good fighter. None of the world champions are gonna agree to face him unless it’s mandatory. I don’t think that fight made him mandatory for any of the belts. So it will be interesting to see where he goes.
Q: Moses Itauma continues to rack up the wins. He says the pressure is off him now he can’t break Mike Tyson’s world record for youngest ever champ. Where would you go next if you were his promoter?
A: The world’s his oyster. I just think don’t go too quick too soon. Because once you step past the mark, there’s no going back. So for someone like Moses, I think the most important thing at the stage now is rounds. He’s not getting rounds against fighters who should be giving him rounds. So he’s going to have to go back to the drawing board and start again with the matchmaking. I’m hearing names that are being thrown out like Andy Ruiz. Now, I’m not saying he wouldn’t beat Andy Ruiz now. I think he would. But ultimately, where’s he gonna go from Andy Ruiz? Probably straight to a world title fight, and I don’t think he’s ready for a 12 round world title fight. Don’t get me wrong, he’s exceptional and I do think he’s the future of the heavyweight division. And I think once Usyk passes on the title, I think it’s his to run with.
Q: People are saying he’s got the speed of Mike Tyson, and he’s got the power too. Will he bulk up a bit more?
A: I don’t think he needs to. I think one of his greatest assets is his feet and his movement. He’s versatile, he can move about. He does things really well. I just think going forward it’s a massive thing that he needs rounds. I’m sure he’s getting them in the gym, but he needs them in a proper fight. I keep hearing people talk about a fight with Martin Bakole. I dunno where he’s getting these shots from because he was absolutely horrendous against Joe Parker. I thought he would’ve learned his lesson, but against Efe Ajagba, he was in the same shape again. I’m thinking to myself, ‘where’s this man’s discipline? Where is his head at?’ He’s obviously a good fighter and the gym stories that have come from him are absolutely phenomenal. He’s probably the greatest gym fighter the world’s ever seen. It’s just unfortunate for him that it only matters when you get under the lights. And a couple of times he’s come under the lights and had big nights. He lost to Michael Hunter and never forced that rematch, which wouldn’t get my head around. He’s lost Joseph Parker now, and then he’s got a draw with Ajagba.
Q: Maybe Itauma could fight someone like Jermaine Franklin or Otto Wallin?
A: Franklin could give him the rounds. Otto’s gonna pose you a couple of headaches or a couple of rounds maybe. But I think he sees off Wallin pretty quickly. I like the Franklin fight for him. I just think he’s an exceptional talent. He’s gonna be managed correctly. Do you think Frank Warren is protecting him by picking and choosing and waiting for the right fights? It’s very rare that Frank Warren makes a mistake at matchmaking level. To be fair to Frank, he knows how to grow a fighter and grow a brand. The only thing I would say is on Frank’s behalf is that when his fighters do take that step up, they tend to lose. We saw that with Dubois, he lost but kept rebuilding and coming back. Listen, Daniel is a 27-year-old veteran. He’s experienced that much. But it’ll be interesting to see if that’s gonna make a difference against Oleksandr Usyk. I do think he’s in the fight. It’s a dangerous fight, but ultimately it’s win or lose. Usyk will make him revisit the place he made him visit last time. He pushed him to the brink of quitting. And that’s the way it goes. I’ve said this before, and I’m not labeling Daniel Dubois as a quitter. Yes, he’s done it in the past and there’s no getting away from it. The first time you do it is the hardest. It’s just that at this moment right now, he’s riding the crest of a big wave and that victory over AJ will catapult him to new heights of confidence. But it’s gonna take about five or six rounds to get into it. People have also got to remember, Dubois is the much younger man here, he’s 10 years younger than Usyk. So all of that kind of fatigue and the tiredness of the fight should all sit well with Daniel Dubois. But ultimately, he doesn’t have the mindset and mentality of Usyk and it will show in the fight.
Q: If Dubois does get the win and become undisputed, where will it rank him amongst the other British heavyweights?
A: If Daniel Dubois can get the win against Oleksandr Usyk. I’d rate it up there with some of the biggest upsets in recent times. Because Oleksandr Usyk has shown us no evidence of why he can beat Usyk. This man’s undefeated. He’s beaten everyone and anyone. He’s beaten punches of the Dubois kind of quality in AJ. He’s beating people who are bigger than Dubois in the likes of Fury. It would be a huge shock.
Q: If he does win, may we even see Tyson Fury coming out of retirement to fight Dubois?
A: I’m not saying it’s impossible, because if you can punch like Daniel Dubois can, nothing is impossible. But for me, it’s very unlikely that he’ll beat Usyk.
Q: Joseph Parker says he would welcome a trilogy fight with Derek Chisora on the undercard of Usyk vs Dubois II at Wembley. Is he selling himself short with a match like that?
A: I think Joseph just wants to stay busy. He’s realised, once again, I said this earlier that inactivity can ruin and kill fighters. Joseph Parker is struggling from inactivity. He’s being so used to back to back to back. With all the stuff over the Bakole fight, Parker is in a rock and hard place. Because he knows the shot’s coming, but he also wants to stay busy and active. Fighting Derek Chisora is probably quite a safe option for him. It’s a fight he knows he can win. He’s visited it twice before. And under Andy Lee, he’s only getting stronger and better. So I think it’s a very safety first fight that one.
Q: Queensberry sent Matchroom a cake yesterday to remind them of the anniversary of their whitewash victory in the 5v5! Would that excite you if they got it on again?
A: It just depends on the matches doesn’t it. Matchroom have got a wealth of talent globally and that’s the big thing that we forget to see and recognise. I think we’re falling a bit short domestically. But I think globally, we’re on a whole different platform, a whole different stage. They’ve got Pat Brown on the team. Pat Brown is a good fighter, but who do you match him with? It’s a very difficult one considering the Queensberry stable..He’s still very fresh. And now it’s a shame with what’s happened with Johnny Fisher, because that would’ve been an ideal step up for someone like Moses Itauma. You could virtually predict how it would go, but you also can’t write someone off like Johnny. He’ll be going through a big change now. He’s got to find where his head is at and where his confidence is, but I wouldn’t write him off. I think Johnny Fisher will come back. I just think with the right game plan, the right direction in his career, he would be a force. I just think he’s got to believe in himself a bit more
Q: Am I right in saying Eddie Hearn has signed up Dave Allen now?
A: I believe so. So I’m hearing, but I wouldn’t know for sure. Dave Allen is someone who’s kind of come back. We’ve not learned nothing new about Dave Allen. All he’s done is old manned Johnny Fisher. He’s used his experience, the wealth of experience he’s got and dealt it viciously to Johnny, who’s been extremely naive. And I think for the rematch, I hope he learned an awful lot from it. It was like he went into the rematch without a proper game plan. When you’ve got a size and strength advantage like Johnny Fisher. The first thing as a heavyweight is to stick him on a jab, create the distance and make him pay every time he steps to get close. I thought it was the second coming of Muhammad Ali, he moved that much. For a big man like Johnny to move so much, he was going to tire rapidly. There was no shock when we came to the end of the fourth round that he was absolutely exhausted. It was the beginning of the end and it was so alarming to see. Because Mark Tibbs has a wealth of experience behind him. And Mark Tibbs has done really well with coaching the likes of Dillian Whyte. He was undefeated during the whole time he was with Mark Tibbs. So he did a great job with Dillian. I just feel he went Johnny with no game plan and no plan B. I just can’t understand why? The jab is the most important weapon, especially in the heavyweight division. It creates distance, it creates openings. It’s a defensive weapon. It can be inoffensive. It’s so important and for someone like Johnny, he’s the bigger and stronger man. I understand there is a way to set things up, but use this as a weapon. First and foremost. Let people know this is not something I’m trying to touch you with or feel my way in with. I’m gonna hit you with this and you’re gonna know you’ve been hit. And he just didn’t start with that and it cost him.
Q: Manny Pacquiao announced his return to the ring. Age 46.. Another one’s coming back. Can’t seem to leave it alone. Maybe his career as a politician, he didn’t fancy it anymore. So he is back, back to boxing. He’s got Freddie Roach back with him though. What do you make of that?
A: I’m worried for him. I mean, I read an article yesterday that he was targeting Tank Davis. That’s not gonna end well at all. That kid’s a monster, when he’s on it, he’s a monster. He’s got to go through lamon roach rematch first and then come out of that. So I don’t know, for someone like Manny Pacquiao, I think it’s a crying shame, but he can’t leave it alone, each to their own. Yeah, but he’s someone that’s kept himself in good shape, so maybe he will actually be better than we realise he will be, have to wait and see. Listen, there’s one thing that’s undefeated in the whole world, and that’s father time.
Q: Joshua’s had an operation on his elbow.. Any sign of him being active again this year?
A: I’d like to see him back in the ring. I think he’s at his best when he’s fighting once again, when he’s active, I think them three fights back to back before the Dubois fight. He looked good, didn’t he? Great shape. The knockout of Francis Ngannou shows you what you should be doing to Mixed Martial Artists in boxing rings. It will be interesting to see what he does next. Like I say, he might feel like im at a stage where I have had enough and he could bling. He’s been to the very top of the highest of the game, being unified heavyweight champion of the world. Not once, but twice. He’s had setbacks. He came back from them. Is it still in him? Does he still want to push himself to the absolute limit? Day in and day out, I think he does, I think he’s going to be a young man who’s always going to be that hungry, that engaging fighter, and people are always going to love him. He’s always gonna sell out stadiums, isn’t he? Yeah, he’s huge. Still massive. 2012 hero. And, it’s hard when you’ve been under the microscope for someone as long as he has from 2012, but we are in 2025 now, it’s a long time to be under a microscope like that. I only could do it for a couple years. I don’t know how he’s done it for this many years. Whatever he chooses to do. I think the whole of the country supports him.
Q: We spoke to a friend of the show, George Groves recently. He said he wants to see Tyson Fury and Francis Ngannou get it on in a cage, because they obviously did it in a boxing ring. Would you pay to see that?
A: He says he wants to, that would be entertaining. Would I pay to see it? Absolutely. But Francis Ngannou would probably pull off anyone’s arms, choke them, strangle them, knock them out. Tyson Fury has got some long arms to grab onto as well hasn’t he. I think the only person he couldn’t do that to is Jon Jones. I think that’s the only man in the world, that has the possibility, I’m not saying he does. But I think Jon Jones is the only man possible to stop Francis Ngannou in a cage.
Q: We’ve seen a lot of these kinds of crossover things being mooted. We’ve heard Oleksandr Usyk is reportedly in preliminary talks for a potential MMA fight with Jake Paul, now Jake Paul and Usyk in an MMA fight. What’s going on?
A: The world has gone absolute nuts. I think Jake Paul has just started to realise that he has no chance in the boxing ring against anyone who is probably a decent fighter. So he’s trying to switch up codes, get Usyk in? He’s got a background in wrestling behind, wrestled at school and a college wrestler. So he’d have a huge advantage on the ground when he gets someone down.
Q: Eddie Hall, world Strongest man, Eddie Hall said he wants to fight Conor McGregor in a cage. It’s a 12 stone, 12 stone weight difference there. I mean, Eddie Hall. Eddie Hall knocked out Mariusz Pudzianowski. Did you see that 30 seconds?
A: I haven’t seen it but I know Mariusz Pudzianowski is obviously the world strongest man a million times over, turned into some kind of Cage fighter. Basically just a huge ball of muscle. Who’s never gonna be set up to last more than a minute in a boxing ring. Eddie Hall looks like an extremely strong man. Deadlifted 500 kg didn’t he? I said it’s one thing being stronger, another thing running around the ring and then actually being hit back by someone who can punch correctly.
Q: Back to real boxing. Fabio Wardley is in action this weekend, not against Jarrell Miller. As he was supposed to be. ’cause once again, he’s failed another drug test. Well, I think we don’t know for a fact. Well, I think he’s just withdrawn from the fight, but no one knows exactly why?
A: I heard he had an injury at first, but obviously I don’t know if that’s true or not. I have no idea. We’ll have to check our facts on this one. But yeah, he’s fighting Justis Huni..Hopefully a better replacement when it comes to actual quality of opponents. Because for as good as Jarrell, well, I don’t wanna say for as good as Jarrell Miller is. He’s not very good, but he’s a big, heavy matches with arms. He absorbs absolutely everything. I mean, I thought Daniel Dubois did great to get under him and stop him the way he did. But he’s just, he’s just a big durable fighter. He’s not very good, doesn’t punch very hard. You know, you’re always gonna get rounds, I think to someone like Fabio, the hardest thing for him was shutting Jarrell’s Millers mouth. With this Justis Huni, I think he’s got an amateur pedigree that Fabio doesn’t have, so straight away he’s on the back foot. I think this is a really hard fight for Fabio. I, but I think Fabio’s power might be the difference.
Q: We saw what his power can do, didn’t we? I mean, Justis Huni better stay out of the way of that right hook?
A: Listen, the shot that he hits Frazer Clarke with, it’s a devastating punch. Fabio Wardley, people don’t realize this, he is only going to get better. He’s only going to go from strength to strength. The experience that he’s gaining fight by fight is immense. Like I say he’s a force to be reckoned with, I rate Fabio Wardley highly. Hopefully he gets another win under his belt and he can move on, maybe up to the world level and see where it goes from there? Someone like Fabio, this is a proper fight where he’ll actually know about the levels of where he’s going, is he going and if he’s good enough. I’d like to see him go a few rounds in this fight, which I think he will. But as I said, time will tell when he’s got calibre, he’s got pedigree, and I think he’ll be able to, it’s just, can he ride the storm? If he can then, then that caliber, that pedigree, that can show later on in fights. It’s just can you ride out the first 4, 5, 6 rounds? Because that’s where Fabio’s going to come, he’s going to land heavy hooks, big shots over the top. Yeah. We just don’t know what he’s got yet, because he hasn’t been tested at this level. He hasn’t been, we don’t know anything really about on a professional basis. We do know as an amateur he had pedigree but it’s two different sports. So we’ll find out, you know, both of them have questions to answer.
Q: It’s kind of following in your footsteps, isn’t he fighting at Portman Road, home town stadium like you did at Goodison. So yeah, hopefully can win it?
A: Ipswich Town’s a big football club. Back in the Premier League this season. So yeah, they’ve had an awful lot to be happy about this season.Back in the championship now, but yeah. They’ve had you know, they had some decent results last season. And they are a big club ultimately beyond taking boxing back there, but that makes it even bigger. Again, it actually adds to the club. So, it’ll be interesting to see how it pan out.
Q: In terms of you and your kind of post boxing career now, have you got the kind of the bug for presenting television wise after, after what you did at Goodison Park? Would you like to go into more of that?
A: I can present. I can do what I want. multifaceted man. I’ve heard that I can always adapt. If you put me in a situation, I’ll figure it out. So, it’s something that, did I envision? No. Is it something that I’ve done before? Yeah its not my first role so, I can do a number of things. I seem to get on well with 99% of people. It’s just that 1% on Twitter that doesn’t like me, but who cares about that. So yeah, it’s, I’m working, I’m always working.. I’m always trying to improve myself, better myself. And I’m always trying to, you know, give myself a different, different outlet on things. Earning potential, in different places and all different parts.